Carl: Well, here we are again. Same place, different time, familiar faces. Some of our more seasoned readers may remember a little feature we ran for several weeks called After Hours, which, for reasons none of us can really figure, disappeared. But now we're back, bigger, better, and angrier. With me tonight is Editor in Chief Kevin McGinnis, Senior Editor Dannille Pence, and general staff lackeys Mike Twomey and Matthew Marlow. I'm going to turn the floor over to Mr. McGinnis to introduce tonight's topic.

Kevin: Tonight we gather ‘round the fire to discuss the concept of music in games today. As we have grown to love game music, some staff more than others, we've also come to appreciate the subtle art that is the mixing and selection of the sound. We will discuss the importance of popular music as well as original score used in games. So, sit back, crack one back and let the fun flow. As a fan of music I can appreciate the art that is game audio. Not only does it serve as an additional medium to convey the story, but it also acts as an integral part of the gameplay mechanics. Personally, I will concentrate on these ideas; as for the rest of these yokels, well, you had better hear it from them. Dannielle, take it away.

Dannielle: As anyone who pays any attention in our chat room would know, I listen to video game music a lot more than I listen to "regular" music - a habit that most find disturbing, some sympathize with and a few practice along with me. Thus I clearly regard the audio experience a game offers to be of utmost importance; music sets a mood, creates a feeling and when used correctly can bring gaming to a whole new level. Music is one of the first things I notice about a game; in its own right it can be just as important as the graphics, and oftentimes can be utilized in a manner that enhances gameplay.

Mike: I love the inclusion of contemporary music in today's games - case in point, Snoop Dogg signing on with other prominent West Coast hip-hop artists to do the soundtrack for True Crime: Streets of LA. It further proves that gaming has developed to a point where it is a main stream form of entertainment along with television, movies, and music, and not the stereotypical refuge of the social outcast. Further, in drawing attention to the medium, it helps break the mold of what most people perceive video game music to be - electronic blips and boops that sound like they came from someone who failed to score a record deal in the 1980s. To know this generalization is dead, one need only play Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, or just about any Resident Evil game. They and their brethren prove that the industry can command and utilize truly composed music and has come a long way from one guy working freelance in his garage with a synthesizer.

Marlow: Well, my teachers tell me that because I'm a music major, I should know something about music. So, in my half-educated opinion I have to say that, quite obviously, video game music runs the length of the field; from mindless, repetitive crap to fantastic interesting scores. Then there's the usage of popular music in games. It's a great idea, but developers need to get a sense of taste in their music. Honestly, I don't think Snoop Dogg deserves a place in True Crime. Hopefully the rest of the music will be along the lines of Vice City. While the game was repulsive in its purpose, the score was stunning.

Carl: I myself am a great fan of music in videogames. Though I'm not the avid listener that Dannielle is, I do appreciate the techno beats of Super Mario Bros, the orchestral beauty of The Legend of Zelda, and the eerie mind-rapes of Eternal Darkness. But, unlike our wookiee friend, I'm not overjoyed by the fact that so many mainstream musical artists are being included in the modern gaming experience. I make no secret that I am not a fan of the likes of Snoop Dogg, DMX, and their hip hop/rap/R&B compatriots. In fact, I'd rather run my ears under a cheese grater than hear their particular brand of "music," if that's what one chooses to call it. Am I looking forward to a game like True Crime? Sure. Am I planning on renting it, at least? Yeah. Do I expect to have it muted for much of the playtime? More than likely. I feel, personally, that games need to get away from the "mainstream" audience that Michael seems to be so excited to welcome into our little community. Mainstream gaming is what's wrong with the industry today, though that's a topic for another night. Even bands that I absolutely love really shouldn't be dipping their hands into the world of games; case in point, Metallica, one of my absolute favorite bands, making a vehicular combat game along the lines of Twisted Metal. In my humblest of opinions, keep the mainstream out of gaming, and leave game music to people like Koji Kondo, who make game music.

Marlow: I wholeheartedly agree with Carl on this. While mainstream music entering the video game industry would be great, the music needs to stay true to the history. I'd rather hear the soulful strains of John Coltrain's "My Favorite Things" than Eminem's "America".

Dannielle: I have to agree with Carl -- when I turn on a game, I want to hear something new, not the same stuff I can listen to on any number of radio stations at the time. Of course, I have never much liked the trend games have had lately of becoming "mainstream," so perhaps my dislike of such music coupled with my beloved obsession stems from that.

Kevin: I don't really agree with anyone. I think popular music is very well suited in games - as long as proper music is selected. A game like Def Jam Vendetta just wouldn't have been as good without the phat beats of DMX, Joe Budden, Method Man, Redman, Ludacris and all the others who made it in.

Mike: Carl, sad as it may be for you, the mainstream is what will keep the industry alive and strong. We disdain the casual gamers, and, well, rightly so. However, with them picking up junk like Madden 2004, it will keep money coming in and allow for development of, well, good games.

Carl: The industry has survived from the 1980s through the mid 90s when Sony showed up, and was doing just fine; does the casual gamer help the industry? Yes, to some degree, but it hurts it as well.

Mike: Mainstream music, coupled with good games, will allow for them to flourish by the same token. How many units of True Crime do you think will move simply because someone walks in and goes "Damn, this has the new Snoop single, one please."

Marlow: That's a problem though. When "gamers" start buying certain games because they have "mad phat beats, yo'" then there's a problem.

Dannielle: As nice as that is for the industry, I have a problem with games selling just because a popular artist has a song in it. I'd rather have music used as an additional tool to enhance gameplay and the entire experience than strictly as a mechanism for hooking unwary casual gamers.

Mike: Those aren't gamers, Marlow. They're a necessary evil.

Marlow: Hence the quote marks.

Carl: The more mediocre games that are made that appeal to the mainstream, as with the Maddens and the extreme sports "games," then the more of those we'll see, and the fewer top-notch titles like Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, and Pikmin we'll see. Developers will see that the crap sells, and as a result, we'll receive more crap than quality. Mainstream music brings mainstream gamers, which in the long run hurts the true art of the industry: creativity, which is slowly becoming less and less potent in the industry today.

Kevin: I can't tell you how many times I've put Def Jam in my PS2 just to listen to it while cleaning the house, tending to the Guinea Pigs, or anything. "Real songs" are a lot easier to just sit down and listen to, or so I feel. I just have trouble sitting down and listening to the Hunter: The Reckoning soundtrack. The original scored games, however, are much more an art than a mass-market seller. Not to say that games like Zelda and Final Fantasy don't sell well, they sell extremely well, but their musical scores are often severely overlooked and overshadowed by the likes of things like Def Jam, True Crime and Vice City.

Mike: I would much rather prefer a few of top notch quality than a lot of middle-grade quality. If by taking Madden 2003, updating the names and a few other details, marrying it to Jock Jams 54248, and shipping it out as Madden 2004 will boost the production budget that much more and allow for more talent to be hired on a good game, I'm for it.

Carl: More talent will be hired for the mainstream game, because they can make it cheaper, and sell more of it.

Marlow: The problem is, developers are all about money and not about staying loyal to the true gamers. The money that they earn through sales of Jock-fest 2004 will just encourage them to make Jock-fest 2005.

Kevin: Yes, but you must remember it is exactly that - a business industry. The company looks out for number one without stepping in number two. Companies like Nintendo will stick to their roots and create a true work of art even if it means sacrificing sales. Sony and Microsoft want to add all the bells and whistles they can just so they can say "lookie what we've got!" But really, what is a game's soundtrack without its actual mixing and production? Where does the importance lie in 5.1 surround and 2.0 Stereo? How can it be used to an advantage? I know I would much rather play a game in true Dolby 5.1 than Stereo because it gives you that feeling of immersion.

Carl: A game soundtrack should be just that: A game soundtrack. We don't need the "fly tunes" of some half-assed rapper like "Fiddy Cent" and Nelly when we can have truly beautiful, mood setting tunes like those found in The Legend of Zelda and Metroid Prime.

Mike: Carl, if you think I want 50, Nelly, or anyone recognized by any half-ass with a P2P program on their computer, you need to cut the dosage.

Kevin: Music always plays a central part in a game whether we know it or not. You can't help but notice how the fast paced rhythm of a fighting game changes your style, or how a slow and sad song makes you a little reflective. Zelda is a perfect example. The sorrowful tone on the Lon Lon Ranch in OoT reflected the world. A microcosm and macrocosm.

Carl: You make an excellent point, Kevin... not hearing gameplay music is just as important as hearing it. We have to know it's there, and setting tones and moods for specific areas of a game, but not sit there thinking about the soundtrack more than the game.

Marlow: I hope I speak for all of us when I say that, like a movie soundtrack, a video game soundtrack should not distract you. I don't want to be about to shoot the gigantic praying mantis and get distracted by the crooning of some terrible singer.

Kevin: There is something more to the music than "mad beats." Often some kind of commentary or theme can be found. Not to mention its extreme ability to be a central part of the game's play mechanics. Take the Lost Woods. You had to listen to which logs the sound came from in order to progress. That's f'ing brilliant.

Dannielle: When used correctly, music in video games can be used to make the players feel whatever the developers want; the right music can have a powerful effect on a player, and the importance of using that tool to its full effect should never be overlooked. People play video games in surround sound because they want to feel like they're in the game -- and music is a very important way to achieve that effect.

Kevin: When you play an old 8-bit NES game you expect "plinky-plunk" type music. When you play a GameCube or Xbox game, you expect full orchestral symphony sounds, not Jay Z or some other flash in the pan "I'm the flavor of the moment" pop star.

Mike: Games like Zelda and Metroid, they deserve their own custom-crafted scores. But anyone who's EVER made or listened to a mix tape knows that mainstream music can be used to create an effect just as well as something custom crafted. When I was over at Kevin's one time playing Def Jam Vendetta, and DMX's track came on, my blood really started moving. I was that much more fired up to beat him down.

Dannielle: It always impresses me when developers and composers take their music seriously; small effects like muffling the noise when a character is submerged in water, increasing the tempo of a song when an enemy appears on screen -- these small details add tremendously to a gaming experience, whether or not a player registers the reason for his changing perceptions of the game lies with the changes in its music.

Marlow: I can tell you that I would not want my video game to be remembered as the one that had a song by Millie-Vanilli.

Carl: I'm pretty sure none of us ever want to hear Bullet Bill shouting "Rollout" at us when trying to navigate Bowser's Castle. My point is that the wrong tunes can destroy the gameplay experience, and when I'm playing cops and robbers on the back alleys of Los Angelas, I don't need some one-hit wonder pop star saying crap to me about how he managed to pick up some "stupid fly ho's" on 42nd Street.

Kevin: Actually, Carl, I would love to hear Bullet Bill... Hell, even Bald Bull, yell "Rollout."

Carl: And that's what's wrong with you.

Marlow: Better yet: "Move bitch, get out of the way!"

Mike: Wouldn't Great Tiger be better suited to do "Rollout?" Marlow's right, Bald Bull is more "Move." But see, Carl, that's your core fear: that developers would just slap something on to get attention. Just as wrongly composed music destroys a game, so too does wrongly-arranged mainstream titles destroy a mix.

Kevin: But just think if old SNES and NES games could have had modern music in them. They would have sucked so terribly. I would not want to play Actraiser and hear The New Kids on the Block.

Carl: I wouldn't be too fond of Kickle Cubicle if I had to play it to the sounds of "Ice Ice Baby," and that's the point I'm making with today's music in games. Mostly, today's music sucks, and games are going that route, as well.

Marlow: We do need to give credit where it's due though. Zelda and Metroid were astonishing in their musical scores. To a lesser degree, Melee and Splinter Cell give a sense of immersion in the events onscreen.

Carl: And that is EXACTLY how it should be; I never remember hearing P. Diddy or N*Sync in Splinter Cell, and that was what some would call a more "mainstream" game. The audio in Splinter Cell, though I find the game itself overrated, was superb.

Kevin: Really, though, screw the 5 games that feature all these "happening soundtracks." If I'm playing Zelda, I want a mix of light and floaty sounds with dark and heavy mixes. I want to be able to hear the evil in Ganon without ever hearing his voice. I want to hear the innocence in Link and Zelda without every hearing more than a grunt uttered from their mouths. But there has to be some music there. Games like Buffy the Vampire Slayer severely lacked a musical score. There was music, but it was poorly mixed and very repetitive. When you get something like that it makes you want to stop playing the damn game.

Mike: Zelda and Metroid, I agree. I definitely agree with Splinter Cell. I just picked it up and already I'm attuned to whenever the music jumps in volume. Whenever it has, my thought has been "Shit, shut up, they'll hear you! Wait... aw, dammit. If it's that loud, they've heard me. All right, quick, where to hide?"

Carl: Audio should attempt to add an extra level to the gameplay, not simply "be there," as the case would be with games like True Crime.

Marlow: That's exactly the point. Games like that, that require actual thought to be put in than "Who am I throwing the ball to?" or "I need some tunes to beat people up to." Music should give you cues as to what is happening or about to happen. If I wanted music to just "be there" I could tune my radio to the latest "Top 40" station and have that. I want something that's going to play with my emotions. When a main character dies, I want to feel the sadness, the loss. When I defeat a boss, I want the music to be triumphant. I don't want to hear "We Are The Champions" playing.

Kevin: As many have known, and as I've ranted in this little special here, I feel that Zelda: OoT is the single greatest game ever made. It had all the glory of modern graphics, one of the most compelling stories of all time and the single best soundtrack I've ever heard in a game. What made it so damn good? The fact that I could put on any track from the soundtrack and know where it was in the game, and what was happening in the story.

Dannielle: That's the type of thing I love to see developers doing with music. When it's used as a fantastic backdrop, it's great, but it's even better when an active effort is made to integrate it into the gameplay. Alerting you to an enemy's presence, to possible nearby discoveries, to introduce a change of scene or an upcoming event -- the right music can do all of this and more. There is a reason video game music can be lumped into specific categories; for example, "battle music." It's because music can elicit a specific response, and in games with intensive stories or where the player should feel a particularly strong emotion, music is an essential part of achieving that. Everyone by now should associate certain themes with specific games. The Mario theme, the Zelda theme, the Final Fantasy prelude -- tracks like this can define a game and exemplify the importance people place on music, even if they don't always realize it.

Kevin: That's what makes a soundtrack stand out - your ability to remember exact moments of a game, or anything, because of the music you heard. Much within our own lives, music plays a central part. People will remember the song playing when they had their first kiss, I know I do, and people will also remember the music after defeating an opera singing pile of crap with sweetcorn teeth. Well, once I break out the references to Conker's Bad Fur Day you know it's all downhill from here.

Kevin: I said before, what makes the music is the memory. You can't have an all time great game without a great score. Def Jam was an amazing wrestling game, but I know a lot of people who didn't buy it because of the soundtrack. On the contrary, I know people who bought Zelda games just for the soundtrack. It's what you remember and take from the music that makes it good. If you can find yourself humming part of it later, it should be considered a success. Additionally, the actual mixing is important. I will surely remember the outstanding quality of a 5.1 mixed game over a 2.0 stereo game. Eternal Darkness, an amazing game all around, suffered from lack of 5.1. Hopefully in the next generation Nintendo will have learned from the GameCube that 5.1 or even 7.1 surround is the key, even if it's just a gaming console and not a media center.

Dannielle: While I remain somewhat inclined to more keenly appreciate music composed specifically for a game -- to bring the player closer to the action, set a mood, or associate a specific event or character with a specific song, among many other things, any music integrated well with a game can bring about any number of desired effects. Video game music is in a league of its own, and while most people don't actively regard it as the beautiful, expressive art form that it can be, I for one am always proud to answer the question "What's your favorite music" with an emphatic "video game music!" Koji Kondo, Nobuo Uematsu, and the dozens and dozens of other talented video game composers out there -- here's to you.

Marlow: Music is an essential part of video games. How's that for obvious statement of the year? As we repeatedly asserted, music needs to reflect the mood of the game, not just provide "white noise." While I enjoy today’s hit music, I don't think it deserves a place in my video game collection, which will be getting use long after said musician hangs up his guitar.

Mike: Perhaps I've been wrong in arguing for "mainstream music." When I say mainstream music, I automatically filter out all the crap that gets airplay in this world. I make mix discs for a hobby and as such, I know that rock and hip-hop can be used to provoke a response as well as custom composed music. Driving mixes of mine range from "Zion" by Fluke that gets me wanting to tear up the road, to The Verve's cover of "Bittersweet Symphony," making me very reflective on long journeys. Games that Dannielle pointed out - Zelda, Mario, Final Fantasy - these are franchise games with multiple titles to their names. They need their own individual sound. For individual games that will not have sequels, soloists and bands can do just fantastic for setting their mood.

Carl: All right, I think I've made my general opinion fairly clear. Games need game music. Simple as that. I know people reading this will disagree with me, and I know people I'm talking to right now disagree with me. Call me old fashioned, call me a traditionalist, but I just don't like the idea of slapping mainstream pop stars (or really any mainstream and/or alternative-style) musicians into a game. Give me techno "look at me I'm inside a pipe throwing fireballs at a man-eating plant" beats, give me triumphant fanfares when I obtain the all-powerful sword, give me foreboding bass and organ music when I encounter the most evil force in the universe, give me intense, desperate tones when danger comes out of nowhere. I just want to hear the game, not what society tells me I should be buying from my local FYE and hearing on my "Today's Hit Music" radio station.

And thus ends the long awaited return of After Hours; if all goes well, we hope to see this return as a regular feature. Make sure to keep an eye on the site – you never know what our staff will pick to argue about next.